Trade Vantage – Scam or Not?

Hey Guys,

Today I received a bunch of emails from Trade Vanatage, a new site claiming to be selling an artificial intelligence based trading robot. After taking a look around the site I noticed something suspicious about the trading software. In the video below I explain exactly what I noticed and why you might want to think twice before shelling out a fortune for this software.

Below is a screenshot of the Trade Vantage video and a screenshot of a chart with two moving averages. As you can see adding two simple moving averages replicates the signals given by this extremely expensive piece of software.

What does this tell us? Is Trade Vantage really artificial intelligence based or is it just another scam? You decide, share your opinion by leaving a comment below!

Trade Vantage Example – EUR/JPY Daily Chart January 13th 2012
EUR/JPY Daily Chart January 13th 2012

My Chart – EUR/JPY Daily Chart January 13th 2012
EUR/JPY Daily Chart January 13th 2012

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96 thoughts on “Trade Vantage – Scam or Not?
      1. Nick you are doing a Great job,
        I use 2 moving avg, & pivot points for years am doing very good.
        Thanks for the info…Cheers

  1. I’ll stick with (removed), a hell of a lot cheaper, and not as lofty in claims, better put together too.

    1. Thanks for the comment but I removed the link. We don’t allow links to Forex sites from new commenter’s.

  2. hahahhahahahhhaahahahh  very good Nick, I also been getting bombarded with email from these guys, was not considering it because of the price tag (far to expensive for a black box system) Ure a star mate !!!  thanks for sharing

  3. The bottom line is always this… If someone truly found this way to make all this money so easily why would they:
    a) NEED money by selling it to you or b) RISK selling it to you and risking you either reverse engineering their software and selling it yourself or take the risk that with so many people trading the EXACT same entries at the EXACT same times, might change the way the overall markets react…Although now that I’ve said that, imagine you had a network of a couple million people who were all taking the exact same trades, you’d actually have influence over the supply and demand of the markets lol!

    Either way, if it were so great they wouldn’t be wasting time offering it to the public they’d be busy making pips lol

    1. I don’t fully agree, I make pips but I also sell a course from time to time in which I share my trading method. Why do I do this? Well I could say it is because I love to help people and that would be the truth.

      However, that is not the only reason. If I could make an extra $10,000 a year selling Forex education…. why shouldn’t I? $10k is a lot of money, even if you make $200k a year trading Forex $10k is still a lot of money.

      The figures above are just examples but my point is that their are honest people out there selling Forex education. I sell my method and time because I like to help and because it earns me extra money. Does this make me a scammer? Well, if it does, just about everybody is a scammer. Most people exchange their time for money by working for their employer or client….

      Anyway my point is that not everybody making money in Forex education is a scammer. What makes somebody a scammer is when they sell crap they do not use themselves or crap they know does not work….

  4. Too many of these scams about, just please don’t get sucked in, unless you want to lose money!!!!!

  5. Hi Nick,

    I, too, saw this and decided ‘NO WAY’ for 2 reasons. The second reason was the ridiculous price. The main reason was that even if (or perhaps especially if) it worked as they claim, it will not help me to learn to be a good trader. So, NO WAY.

    1. Dean, I am glad somebody said it. This is the most important point that so many miss. Forex is about learning to trade for yourself. Being reliant on signals, magical software or anything else is dangerous. When the signal giver dies or retires, when the software stops being developed your back at square one. The real key to Forex is becoming an independent trader….

  6. Hi Nick. How about blue magic? 
    (removed)
    i have been getting their mails these days. Is it the same vendor?

    1. Seryas, I removed the link as we do not allow links here.

      I took a look at the page and I have no opinion on it. It could be a scam or it could be legitimate. I saw no trading videos on which to base my opinion on.

  7. cassie stubs has been sending me emails on how great this is
    Anything casey stubbs promotes or sell is a waste of time
    Not sure how he gets away with it

    1. I like Caseys stuff but I am not signed up to his mailing list. I was not aware he promoted a lot of affiliate products. The sad truth is that you could earn up to $1,000 for each affiliate sale so it is no wonder Forex site owners promote this stuff.

  8. no wonder 95% of new traders fail in their first year….they keep falling for this crap.  Thanks for the post Nick.

      1. Any takers out there of a program called Oracle. It cost me about $2700 I believe it was. Sold by Dustin Pass and NO REFUNDS! Long story short it traded news events, entered trades very
        Short term very quickly when various news events occurred like a jobs report happened or whatever. You then grabbed some profits quickly. How it work for me was rather disappointing.
        I only had one good trade, and some bad ones. Most trades either didn’t execute properly or were no trades. In other words no trade entered at the event. After waking up in the miiddle of the nights many times for nothing, As I live on west coast I decided to quit using the software. Quite a painful experience for about a $2400 loss or so for me. I WON’t say the software didn’t work, but how many times do you want to get up in the middle of the night for nothing. If you lived on East coast or better yet in Europe would have been much better as announcements would occr at more reasonable local hours, but I still can’t recommend it.

      1. Hi Nick–I am very interested in your VIP course–how is it different from your free course? Is there much more info?
        Thanks!

        1. Edmo, the VIP course is completely different. The Free course gives you the basics for building an effective trading plan and money management plan. 

          The VIP course is a 5 hour video course in which I share my actual Price Action Strategy which I use daily to trade. There is also a private forum for discussion of the method and trade discussion.

          So the two courses are completely different. The free course is about planning your trading and the VIP course is an advanced Price Action course and private forum.

  9. Good one Nick. I kept recieving the emails only because I was curious how much they were going to ask for this ‘genius’ program. At $19.97 it might be worth blowing some money?? At $1.99 I would probably buy it, just to see what it did. But at this price…
    And I have unsubscribed now of course!!

    1. Hahaha yeh well $1997 is the price discovered by internet marketers that generates the most revenue. The $1997 price tag for some reason generates a lot of sales so when you see $1997 it is usually safe to assume the person is an itnernet marketer and not a trader.

    1. Charles, I think you’re wrong about that. Very few people actually sue, it takes time and money to sue companies and most cannot afford it. If this is in fact a scam some people will refund but I doubt any will sue.

  10. I runned the demo version of trade vantage on a demo account for 3 days, taking every single trade suggested. It ended – 320 pips.
    After that the demo version expired and I had to buy the software if I wished to continue.  Of course I did not; 3 days is too short to really know what this software is worth, but a few thousand bucks is too high a price to buy it blindly.

    It was my third time I received a software offer from Dustin Pass; it always went with a demo version for a few days, then you had to buy for a few thousands buck if you wish to continue. The offer is always very professional when it comes to marketing and commercial aspects: it always has a discounted price, the time and quantity is limited and you have to hurry if you do not want to miss it, and so on.

    I do not recommend anything in that matter. All I can say is I did not buy.

    Thank you Nick for this post.

  11. Came across this neural software ad last Thursday. To me it sounded like a excessively urgent, hard hitting, high intensity sales pitch with the  only one likely to get rich quick being the people doing the pitching. Then got an email yesterday from Dustin Pass saying the commercial version had hit the streets and this was my last chance to get in. Got the feeling that if i did’nt buy then and there i’d instantly turn into a cloud of dust. Gave the email the flick. So now Dustin Pass has effectively become Dust-in  the Desert.

  12. Well done Nick I too have been sent a copy to try out but I did not bite,there is so much of this stuff around I find it truly annoying. If it is so good why don’t they use it and become mega rich.

    1. Ochaye, I mentioned this below and I feel it is worth repeating.

      I make money trading the Forex market but I also sell my trading method. Why do I do this? Well I could say it is because I love to help people and that would be the truth.However, that is not the only reason. If I could make an extra $10,000 a year selling Forex education…. why shouldn’t I? $10k is a lot of money, even if you make $200k a year trading Forex $10k is still a lot of money.The figures above are just examples but my point is that their are honest people out there selling Forex education. I sell my method and time because I like to help and because it earns me extra money. Does this make me a scammer? Well, if it does, just about everybody is a scammer. Most people exchange their time for money by working for their employer or client….

  13. Hi Nick – I received a few emails about TV and out of curiosity and in a spirit of openess did a search on the product and the name of the main guy. A whole load of suspicions were thrown up – the company has a history of expensive products which have seemed to fizzlr and die out.

    Also, the emails were from different people but all worded pretty much the same – as was the content of many sites that my research led me to … this made it stink of a heavy affiliate program, and indeed if an affiliate gets 3 sign-ups they get the software for free. What I read was invariably top heavy on sales pitches and no meaningful reviews.

    I always research carefully – which is how I found both you and one other forex group to which I belong. neither of you have an affiliate program (not that I’m aware of anyway), both of you were reviewed widely and both of you TEACH ME TO TRADE. Which is what I want to do – I want to be in control.

    Yours is a great review – balanced and fair and illustrated with proven facts.

    1. I hate affiliate programs, I have never taken part in one and my course has never been promoted by affiliates. I think it is tacky and irresponsible to sell affiliate programs/education. 

      If I were to promote a course or a piece of software I would want to have forward tested it for at least 6 months first. I would want to know that it makes money otherwise I would not feel comfortable promoting it.

      I highly doubt any of the affiliates have forward tested Trade Vantage for a week, let alone 6 months. How can they promote a product they have not tested themselves? How can they promote a product that may not work? I think it is sumpremly dishonest of people to do so.

  14. Nice one nick, I got this and the first thing i do when i get any of this is throw on a few indicators and i found several that produced similar results. moving averages when used properly can and will produce a very profitable system. Ultimately the system that controls everything is between the ears. I have found that most systems will work, The only reason they dont ,is because of the way we use the device between the ears

    1. Problem with indicator based systems is that they only work when used in the market conditions they were created for.

  15. Hi Nick, thanks for your great review, I’m unclear as to entry and exit rules using your moving averages as some exits seem to be made before the cross occurred could you explain the rules?  Thanks

    1. Lee, this post was not written to share a moving average based system. I do not trade using indicators, only price action. The purpose of this post is to show that Trade Vantage might not be what it claims to be. Like I said in the video I spent 5 minutes figuring out the right combination of indicators…. they may not be perfect but it illustrates my point. If you want to use this system (I do not advise it) you can throw the indicators on your chart and tweak them until they’re perfect.

      My trading method can be found on the Forex Strategy section. I can only give advice on my trading strategy as it is the only strategy I use.

      Giving people advice on some random moving average strategy I threw together in 5 min would be irresponsible. I have not forward tested the strategy so I cannot give advice on it.

    2. Lee, this post was not written to share a moving average based system. I do not trade using indicators, only price action. The purpose of this post is to show that Trade Vantage might not be what it claims to be. Like I said in the video I spent 5 minutes figuring out the right combination of indicators…. they may not be perfect but it illustrates my point. If you want to use this system (I do not advise it) you can throw the indicators on your chart and tweak them until they’re perfect.

      My trading method can be found on the Forex Strategy section. I can only give advice on my trading strategy as it is the only strategy I use.

      Giving people advice on some random moving average strategy I threw together in 5 min would be irresponsible. I have not forward tested the strategy so I cannot give advice on it.

  16. Tremendous Nick. Haha there you see fooled again. I got that vantage email from a guy in this industri, wich have a good name but i start loosing faith in him. 

          1. Interesting…. I checked him out and it seems that his course includes a 3 SMA system…. very basic stuff that is not worth paying for.

          2. I disagree i think hectors course is excellent but unfortunately he promotes any affiliate crap going to his list which ruins his credibility.

  17. Hi everyone.
    I’m the author of TradeVantage system, who created it from scratch, and i can tell you that it’s not the combination of simple MAVEs for sure.

    I have spent years on developing this software, trying to build the easiest to use neural network implementation for stocks, options and forex markets forecasting. That might look confusing a bit, as it doesnt have all this deep math stuff, but you’re looking at the basic simplified version that has been created for those traders who do not want to get into all this artificial intelligence stuff.
    There’s the PRO version also available, with tons of additional parameters to model the neural network as you wish, and to fine-tune it to get the highest results in accuracy and profitability. But i dont think there’s the reason to show it on introductory video, even though the video tutorial for this PRO is also available.

    First, let me compare those 2 charts that you shown. It doesnt look like exactly the same system which fires out the signal when one MAVE crosses another. It seems to be similar, as all other trend indicators that are plotted on historical period, and of course they will show you current trend, as they should. The only problem i see there is that not every cross generate the signal in your explanation, or there’s the signal without any cross, and, which is more important, those crosses and signals you have from MAVEs, they are not in right places, being 1-2 bars behind of TradeVantage entry point. Someone can say that it’s not significant, but in such a volatile market as Forex, it’s more than important to get into the trade as soon as possible and get out of it with maximizing profit, without waiting for tons of other trends indicators showing you that there was the trend change ‘recently’. That might cost a lot.

    Historical bars on your chart is also different, with different op-hi-lo-cl values for candles.

    Back to TradeVantage model. It’s flexible, non-predefined model. It’s created for every specific pair, for every specific historical period, for every specific timeframe with its own internal parameters, structures, and data. As you may know, there’re 2 timezones available to trade in it-US timezone and European. So the models will be different for them, with maximization of profit and accuracy on each specific one.

    You can create the model for EURJPY covering 10 years of historical data, using huge neural network with saying 200 layers of neurons, 500 neurons in each. You can learn it to maximize the result (even though it might take several hours to get it done). And then, when that model will be able to determine specific patterns on data that is used as input (that can be up to 320 inputs), with stable results on all 10 years of historical period, then you can compare that model with 2 simple maves crossing system. I can assure you, the picture is going to be far away from what you’re trying to explain.

    Below is my short explanation of internal structure, that i usually send to the users who is willing to know more and understand its principles better:

    ===========================================

    TradeVantage has very complex pre- and post-processing module, which includes filtering, gaps removing, normalizing, building custom private indicators, and so on.

    So, we do not use raw historical data for training, or simple maves cross system once again.
    Raw data is pre- and post-processed, normalized, filtered, noise is removed, and
    transformed to data set which is useable for NN. Also, there’s secondary data is produced, including zigzags and maves, oscillators, waves, and other custom private indicators.
    Data transformations is very complex actually. We get about 160 data sets for training,
    from only 5 historical data series (Open, High, Low, Close, Volume).
    For different models’ parameters, the set of inputs differs. So, for one model there will be 40 inputs only, and for other-220.

    All this is hidden from the user, to make the program easier to use.
    And the model’s structure is fixed. We have spent several years for optimizing it, and to create forecasting core which produces good results for most of the models without getting the users into NN theory and math analysis deeply.

    For example, model type 3 has 106 inputs, 3 hidden layers with neurons, and 2 outputs that are used to receive the signal from neural network.
    Those inputs include prices and oscillators deltas and alphas, their derivatives, series of different waves, pre-defined and self-defined price patterns, and all this with different timeframes, periods and shifts.
    ===========================================

    I would not confuse you guys with detailed description of every single parameter available in Advanced Mode. Simple mode works well so far, and i’m sure you’ll find it easy to use without lacking in accuracy.
    But to those of you who likes research work, like me-this mode is still available, to fine-tune your FX model to get the most from it.

    Marketing team told me that i should not answer those doubts and criticism. But it’s a little bit personal for me, because it’s upsetting for me to find such a posts about the software i’ve been working on for 10 years. And moreover, it’s gonna be distressing to see it without my comment for hundeds of current happy users that use this system for their stock trading for years… Profitable, accurate trading like they all say to me.

    Thanks guys,
    and happy trading!

    1. Konstantin, I would love to address all your points individually but I am pressed for time. I am tempted to delete your post as it is a tad bit promotional. However, I will make an exception in this case.

      I clearly stated in the video that I spent 5 minutes recreating your results. Had I spent a little longer and added more indicators I would have come up with something more accurate. With 5 minutes of work I zeroed in very closely on what you claim has taken you 10 years. What does this say about the software?

      As I said, I am pressed for time so I will make this quick. You have made some very big claims on your site and a few small claims here. I would ask you to back up those claims……

      Give me free access to your software for 6 months. In that period I will forward test Trade Vantage and see if it actually does what you claim it does. I will test it on whatever pair and time frame you suggest with real money and a real live account. If your software does in fact work I will remove this post from my blog and replace it with an apology post.

      Also, any profit I make from live trading your software I would give to charity.Does this sound fair?

      1. I am with Nick on this. If the system works I will take his word for it signaled by the apology post.. and in addition will sign up and for the nxt 19 month give 97% of profits to charity or some education fund for an additional year.

  18. Good one Nick!!! A lot of this “new and improved” stuff is just the same old, same old, recycled and repackaged.   They think if they charge a lot for it- we will think it is special

  19. Every Product promoted by Dustin Pass and Jason Fielder are priced at the same $1997. Why ,well because they are internet marketers who have read an ebook that says you must have a 7 as the last number (some kind of voodoo magic brain/wallet trigger) and as for the other $1990 well I have no theory on that other than a blatant grab for cash. Thanks Nick for your expose . Michael 

    1. The $1997 is the price point used by a bunch of scammers called ‘the syndicate’ headed up by Frank Kern. They sell internet marketing related products.

  20. Mr. Creator of TV, please show your own real trades with the object of your own creation. Two grand is cheap for a proven software and too expensive for an unproven idea. What we have seen is backtest without any way of verifying. 

    1. Very good point, back testing is worthless for the most part. Ten years of back tested data means very little. Six months of forward testing is worth more than twenty years of back testing.

    1. There is not much to elaborate on….
      ————————
      SMA Applied to Close 
      Period: 2
      Shift: -1
      ————————
      ————————
      SMA Applied to Close
      Period: 3 
      Shift: 0
      ————————

      I do not use indicators so maybe I am missing something obvious but I do not see how I can elaborate further.

  21. Here’s the screenshot made from Trade Vantage Advanced User Edition for EURUSD. Green signals are entry positions for long and exit for short, red arrows for short entries and long exits. Grayed signals are trend confirming signals that are used in internal expert system based on fuzzy logic and in stop loss module.
    Neural network has been learned for about 10 minutes which is 50% of overall learning process, i just dont have much time to wait till its end. But that would be enough, current accuracy is 90%.

    That would be nice to see 2 maves cross system that will duplicate every single signal including grayed ones that are generated by NN but werent shown on the chart used in video demo (there’s special option for it to turn them off to keep the chart clean), with at least close entry points.

    The number of inputs that is used in this model (system) is 206. Based on those inputs, the model generates those signals.

    I’m going to work out the demo copy for Nick so he can take a look for a while and make his own objective decision.

    Thank you,
    and have a happy trading!

    1. Here are a few questions:

      1. Do the arrows appear as soon as the candle opens or as the candle closes?
      2. What are the stops for the software? An entry signal is near useless without a proper stop.
      3. Do the arrows ever repaint or remove themselves after being placed?
      4. What time zone are the candles you are using based on?

      All the red and green arrows seem to be every chaotic, it does not seems as easy and clear cut as advertised. A lot of the trades seem to be closed out with very little profit or at break even. The truly successful trades that can be seen match up with MA crosses almost perfectly.

      By toying with my charts for 5 minutes I was able to recreate 80% of those signals with two MAs. So again I am not impressed…All in all this proves very little. If I had two MA’s on my chart I could add a third that would give me more signals. It seems like you have just thrown in an extra indicator that adds more chaos and gives a lot of break even trades.

      Anyway I look forward to the demo, how long will it be? I would love to delve in and test the software so I can report back to everybody on here.

    2. Konstantin, here is my chart with the MA’s I highlighted the problem areas in which the MA’s do not match with Trade Vantage signals. Other than the yellow areas the signals line up extremely well.

    3. Konstantin, are the trades triggered at the open of the signal bar or the close? That is, for entry arrow, do I consider the opening price or closing price of the candle?

    4. So Konstantin, are you still sending me a demo copy of the full version? I still haven’t received it.

      You told all of my readers in the comment above “I’m going to work out the demo copy for Nick”. Did you lie to me and all these people or are you going to come through on your promise?

  22. THANKS SAVED ME $2000 ALMOST BOUGHT THIS TILL I CHECKED ONLINE REVIEWS AND SAW YOURS THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH

  23. Hi Nick, just finished watching your TradeVantage youtube video.  The repainting on Dustin’s chart is alarming to say the least, But I’d like to ask you about your observation that the software is less profitable as of the the release date of 4-8-2012.  What I noticed in the charts is it seems that you are basing your conclusions on a very small sample of trading days.  Obviously there’s a larger sample of trading days to see if this software possibly made a profit or not.  I also noticed in the trades prior to the release date that there were many trades that were open for many many days before being closed.  Don’t know if this software is crap or not, what I do know is it carries a hefty price tag. I could be wrong but I don’t think you’ve giving the software time to work (that’s if it work).  And as we all know you can’t win every trade.

    Wishing all very good trading!!!

    1. I agree that two weeks of data is not enough for proper forward testing. Unfortunately it is the only data I have as the software was only released two weeks ago.

      Let’s look at a few facts though. The software comes with one year worth of trade logs. The trade logs for EUR/USD show no losses in the last twelve months. However, in the two weeks since this software is released EUR/USD apparently takes it’s first loss in twelve months. EUR/USD is not the only pair to suffer this strange occurance.

      GBP/USD has 100% wins for twelve months based on trade logs. As soon as the software is made public it suffers a huge loss. This is not counting the massive -300 pip trade that is currently open on the pair.

      GBP/JPY has countless wins and only one -25 pip loss in twelve months based on trade logs. As soon as the software is made public it takes two losses for a total of -306 pips.

      USD/CHF shows 29 wins and 1 loss in the past twelve months. Upon release it takes at 101 pips loss.

      Do these stats not seems the least bit suspicious to you?

      Even though we only have two weeks of data it is extremely suscpicious.

  24. Hi Nick very nice blog by the way… Pity it doesn’t come to the top or near the top of results when searching for reviews on Trade Vantage(TV)…. I have been getting these final trader making money judgement type emails from TV also….I’ve been trading profitably for over 5 years and at no point I remember getting up in the morning and JUST clicking buy or sell lolll, ANN works but not like they promote it.. I won’t do a long post, because I find that almost as annoying as internet scammers loll but in closing
    sadly TV now reminds me about a call I received 14 years ago saying that I won a cruise and all I had to do is give my credit card to secure the deal…short story they got no money from me then .. Will never get any now!

  25. That software needs a rename – DisVantage– stick a fractal indicator
    on your chart along with your two moving averages and you have it. 

  26. The TradeVantage company logo looks very similar to one used by an australian company that heavily promotes itself as a forex guru through the net and occasional full newspaper ads that I have seen in Sydney’s Sunday Herald.

  27. Hey Nick, I just stumbled on this software and did a google search and found your review, though let me see what Nick is going to say about this, coz i never saw any reviews from you like this before! I was laughing like any thing while watching your video, when you start comparing with the other chart. Giving glossy look to Two moving averages and selling them for $2000. Shame on them.
    I can tell you one thing Nick, experience pays off and I like the way how you presented as well. You saved lots of people including me not to fall for these guys. God Bless you.